Ziúr and Iggor Cavalera on community, resistance and belonging beyond borders

Ahead of their performances at Le Guess Who? Festival this weekend, experimental artist Ziúr and metal legend Iggor Cavalera discuss life-changing music, life-affirming connections, and their complex relationship with home and identity. 

Ziúr and Iggor Cavalera don’t necessarily believe in borders. Whether discussing genres or politics, both artists are advocates for rebellion: music that is sincere, unpredictable and transcendent.

Growing up in a small German village she didn’t feel connected to, Ziúr discovered a whole new sonic world through the love of Sepultura, a band created by Iggor and Max Cavalera. Now, as a guest curator for this year’s edition of Le Guess Who? Festival, she has pieced together an otherworldly line-up built around artists who continue to inspire that same sense of discovery and fresh perspective for her. On it, she pairs Iggor Cavalera with Attila Csihar, melding his melodic drumming styles – moulded by hip-hop, electronic music, noise, and punk – with the Hungarian singer’s operatic, theatrical voice.

Here, the pair fill us in on what to expect from the weekend and what finding community through music means to them.

Given you’re both fans of each other’s work, how would you introduce one another? 

Ziúr: Maybe I should go first. I’ve known you forever! I listened to [the Cavalera brothers] on the school bus, getting on everybody’s nerves. It was an introduction for me. I didn’t even speak English that much. I can validly say that the music I listened to, and yours in particular, saved my life back then. It gave me perspective [living] in a little village. I came from a very privileged place, but I never felt comfortable. Before we met in your studio, maybe a year ago, I listened to the album again, and I felt like I was understanding the lyrics differently.

[Your music was] always standing up for the outsiders. It’s not really introducing you as much as introducing what it meant to me. I carried your spirit for a very long time. It’s also something that I always brought into music and art. I was amazed by your spark and your humble character. You’re one of the biggest metal gods on the planet. You could be an idiot, but you’re not. You carry your politics, and I highly appreciate it. It gives me so much hope. I will fucking follow your footsteps, and I will never lose it.

Iggor Cavalera: Wow, thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, some of the things you said, like playing an album that I did 30 years ago – Chaos A.D. – a lot of the topics are not only still relevant, but they’ve gotten worse than when we wrote them. When we wrote the song Territory, talking about Palestine, we were wishing for peace. Instead of that, now we have a situation there that is way worse.

Z: I’m not that hopeful. Fascism is a killer, and it will somehow get us, but we will make it a little bit harder and also save ourselves a little bit. You made my life better for the sake of just having a voice, like, period. Back then, and now, you gave me hope again. [It’s] the same spirit, and even though I didn’t understand it that clearly when I was 15, I understand it now more than ever. At least, on the way to doomsday, we can support the beauty of life and the vibrancy of the lovers in this world with a sense of community or a sense of belonging. That is what you do, and I’ve also been trying to do that.

IC: It’s amazing that we’re here talking about this. I’m a huge fan of Ziúr’s music. We met about a year ago. It’s very special when an artist gets asked to curate something at a festival. I think they have a little more finesse about putting stuff together that’s more artistic or interesting than thinking about numbers.

I really thrive on making certain nights something that you’re never going to forget. I come from that background where I was affected by certain shows that changed my life, and I want to do the same when I perform. I want to be one of those people who might influence someone to do something different by watching a performance.

Can you name a live show that has influenced or inspired you?

Z: I saw this straight-edge hardcore band from Washington, D.C. in 1998 or 1999 and that was definitely a moment. I always loved that it had this certain lightness, and it had an aggression. It was a positive channel towards community. 

IC: I had many. Queen is an example, when I was 11 years old. I also love this idea to not live in the past and be one of those people who think that what was done way before was better. I find it very important to appreciate the moment that we are in. I have friends who are even younger than me who lost that fire, and they’re like, ‘Oh, yeah, I only listened to records from 1970’. Well, you’re missing out! For example, I was just in Berlin to perform with Merzbow at Atonal. I was really enjoying that moment there and all the different acts. I think it’s important to live our moment and not be trapped in the past or thinking that the future is going to be better.

How did the Le Guess Who? Festival selection process take place?

Z: I did a long list of over 50 people, and then [the festival] picked a short list. I was a little bit surprised they also picked a lot of my favourites, which made it easier. I want a trip. I want people to think all of those artists have their own universe, and they’re out there in their own realm. It’s also about storytelling and how the whole night evolves. If you watch it from the beginning to the end, I think you’re just gonna be losing your mind a little bit, and I really love that. I want to bring people together who come from different backgrounds, from different countries, who [create] different types of music, but there is a common theme. 

IC: The idea of doing this collaboration is very special. I’ve come to an age where I don’t want to do things for the sake of publicity or for the sake of it. It has to have some kind of a core. Attila is one of those people that I connect with on a deeper level, besides all the metal stuff. He really understands sonic ideas, and he really pushes the limit with his voice. For me, it’s mind-blowing. It’s one of those bucket list things. I’m going to be doing something with someone that I’ve been listening to since I was in my 20s. It’s going to be quite a lot of improvisation. It’s going to be a lot of energy. 

It sounds like a sonic homecoming for you all. In Ziúr’s recent album, Home, there are strong themes of the home, roots and community. As musicians from different countries, cultures and genres, how do you connect with the idea of home?

IC: I like the idea of knowing your roots. I like the idea of respecting where you come from and the ancestral sounds that still reverberate within yourself. At the same time, I really don’t like the idea of using that as a weapon; that’s too egoistic in a way. It’s a combination of both. As a Brazilian musician coming from a third-world country, I’ve been exposed to a lot of amazing music throughout my childhood. I bring that to my drumming, and that’s very special. But it’s not only that. I think it’s more about not having borders and not having limits. I enjoy a futuristic drum beat as much as an ancient one, like a drum beat from a tribe in Brazil. For me, they’re both as special – ancient and futuristic – and they merge in the middle. 

Ziúr, does that resonate with you?

Z: From my perspective, coming from a very privileged place, linking to the ancestral roots of my culture is very, very tricky for me. I don’t even know what that is – maybe German schlager or marching music or something like that. I’ve been really trying to leave the place where I grew up. I just felt uncomfortable. If I had felt comfortable, it would have been like the jackpot of privilege, growing up in a very pampered environment in a little town with not that many problems. I would have gotten a job at a bank, driven my car and had my beer on a Friday. 

And home, for me, isn’t connected to a place, but more to the people around me that facilitated a headspace and a sense of belonging. 

How did you present this sense of detachment to Germany within your album, Home?

Z: My record does have a reference towards Germany, because I’ve seen it coming. I grew up in this country where I always thought fascism never left, and, factually, it didn’t. Then there’s the German guilt complex. It’s been getting worse and fascism is everywhere; it’s no joke anymore. I’m detached. No borders, no nations, no gods, no masters. That’s very clear.

Iggor, we’ve heard how Ziúr and Le Guess Who? selected the artists for this showcase. Who are you hoping to see at the festival?

IC: There are people that I want to see, like Raven Chacon, who I’ve worked with before, and is a Native American artist who does a lot of amazing stuff in the art world. He also does a lot of insane music. Lido Pimienta from Colombia. Fatboi Sharif, a rapper from America. Sunn O))) is going to be performing as well. What also excites me about the festival is that I don’t know a lot of the names, and I hope I get surprised by some good stuff.

Lastly, Ziúr, is that sense of exploring artists at the festival something you consider when curating events?

Z: It’s an abstract thing that I can’t really describe. If you give me four hours, I could maybe write down two sentences that are more on point. I just know it comes from my heart. There’s no concept behind it besides showcasing musical talent at first, but also just going out there and bringing them together. My role is to just facilitate this, and I’m 98.5 percent sure it’s going to just fucking hit.